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	<title>Comments on: Will The Coming U.S. Recession Lead To Reflection?</title>
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		<title>By: Carlo</title>
		<link>http://www.bravenewtraveler.com/2008/03/21/will-the-coming-us-recession-lead-to-reflection/comment-page-1/#comment-58645</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree that the blame game is useless...after all, don&#039;t we really only have ourselves to blame? Granted, mass media, corporations and politicians don&#039;t make it any easier to make the &quot;right&quot; choices (quite the opposite, they sell you the &quot;wrong&quot; choice), but ultimately, we make our own decisions. I am hoping that this latest economic crisis does make people re-evaluate what is important to them. Who cares about the Joneses? Why do you have to keep up with them?

In addition to slowing down and taking deep breaths, people need to learn consideration. It&#039;s a magical word. When you walk down a city street all you see are folks so wrapped up in their own world, completely oblivious to what&#039;s going on around them, like they have horse blinders on. Consider your fellow human being, consider the animals, consider the environment. How did we get wrapped up in so much selfishness?

Anyway, I think I&#039;m starting to talk in circles (at least my head&#039;s going in circles!). As for the comment: 

&quot;In the light of realizing that Ã¢â‚¬Å“Ã¢â‚¬Â¦our needs are simple.Ã¢â‚¬Â donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t travelers become the ultimate example of wasteful decadence?&quot; 

I think traveling is now more important than ever. What people think they need is probably way more off than at any other time in history, and traveling is a great way to &quot;get back to the roots&quot; and discover what it really is that we need to be happy and have a fulfilling life. (And you could probably argue that traveling IS a basic need...otherwise why do so many people get that urge to not sit still anymore? After all, it is only very recently in human history that we&#039;ve stopped being nomads).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the blame game is useless&#8230;after all, don&#8217;t we really only have ourselves to blame? Granted, mass media, corporations and politicians don&#8217;t make it any easier to make the &#8220;right&#8221; choices (quite the opposite, they sell you the &#8220;wrong&#8221; choice), but ultimately, we make our own decisions. I am hoping that this latest economic crisis does make people re-evaluate what is important to them. Who cares about the Joneses? Why do you have to keep up with them?</p>
<p>In addition to slowing down and taking deep breaths, people need to learn consideration. It&#8217;s a magical word. When you walk down a city street all you see are folks so wrapped up in their own world, completely oblivious to what&#8217;s going on around them, like they have horse blinders on. Consider your fellow human being, consider the animals, consider the environment. How did we get wrapped up in so much selfishness?</p>
<p>Anyway, I think I&#8217;m starting to talk in circles (at least my head&#8217;s going in circles!). As for the comment: </p>
<p>&#8220;In the light of realizing that Ã¢â‚¬Å“Ã¢â‚¬Â¦our needs are simple.Ã¢â‚¬Â donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t travelers become the ultimate example of wasteful decadence?&#8221; </p>
<p>I think traveling is now more important than ever. What people think they need is probably way more off than at any other time in history, and traveling is a great way to &#8220;get back to the roots&#8221; and discover what it really is that we need to be happy and have a fulfilling life. (And you could probably argue that traveling IS a basic need&#8230;otherwise why do so many people get that urge to not sit still anymore? After all, it is only very recently in human history that we&#8217;ve stopped being nomads).
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		<title>By: Tim Patterson</title>
		<link>http://www.bravenewtraveler.com/2008/03/21/will-the-coming-us-recession-lead-to-reflection/comment-page-1/#comment-58352</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Patterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The ads were Google generated - agreed that this probably isn&#039;t the best forum for an extended political discussion, but in short,  I think a McCain presidency would be a disaster because of reckless and heavy-handed foreign policy.  His joke about bombing Iran (singing the Beach Boys song) was blood-chilling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ads were Google generated &#8211; agreed that this probably isn&#8217;t the best forum for an extended political discussion, but in short,  I think a McCain presidency would be a disaster because of reckless and heavy-handed foreign policy.  His joke about bombing Iran (singing the Beach Boys song) was blood-chilling.
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://www.bravenewtraveler.com/2008/03/21/will-the-coming-us-recession-lead-to-reflection/comment-page-1/#comment-58287</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;2) A McCain presidency would be a disaster for America and the world....&quot;

Where were the ads? Were they a google thing or did the &quot;friends of McCain&quot; actually purchase space directly from BNT?

I&#039;m curious as to why you think a McCain presidency would be any more damaging than an Obama, Clinton, Romney or Kucinich presidency. But of course, this probably isn&#039;t the best forum for that discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;2) A McCain presidency would be a disaster for America and the world&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Where were the ads? Were they a google thing or did the &#8220;friends of McCain&#8221; actually purchase space directly from BNT?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious as to why you think a McCain presidency would be any more damaging than an Obama, Clinton, Romney or Kucinich presidency. But of course, this probably isn&#8217;t the best forum for that discussion.
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		<title>By: Tim Patterson</title>
		<link>http://www.bravenewtraveler.com/2008/03/21/will-the-coming-us-recession-lead-to-reflection/comment-page-1/#comment-58230</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Patterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Um, I just noticed that there are John McCain for President ads on this site.  Let me make two things crystal clear:

1)  I like and respect John McCain

2)  A McCain presidency would be a disaster for America and the world.

-TP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, I just noticed that there are John McCain for President ads on this site.  Let me make two things crystal clear:</p>
<p>1)  I like and respect John McCain</p>
<p>2)  A McCain presidency would be a disaster for America and the world.</p>
<p>-TP
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		<title>By: John Arendshorst</title>
		<link>http://www.bravenewtraveler.com/2008/03/21/will-the-coming-us-recession-lead-to-reflection/comment-page-1/#comment-58198</link>
		<dc:creator>John Arendshorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 08:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Christmas Eve was awesome.  I can&#039;t say I remember all that much of the discussion, but I feel like it was similar to this.  Must have been the steak.

No moose, but I did get a pretty good view of Anchorage from the top of a mountain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christmas Eve was awesome.  I can&#8217;t say I remember all that much of the discussion, but I feel like it was similar to this.  Must have been the steak.</p>
<p>No moose, but I did get a pretty good view of Anchorage from the top of a mountain.
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		<title>By: Tim Patterson</title>
		<link>http://www.bravenewtraveler.com/2008/03/21/will-the-coming-us-recession-lead-to-reflection/comment-page-1/#comment-58194</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Patterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 07:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for the comments everyone - I hope we can keep the conversation flowing.

Bryant -

 I agree that hard work and productivity are important, but to what end?  Improving ourselves and our environment through work is honorable, but so much &#039;work&#039; today is destructive of body, mind, soul and earth.  The Alberta tar sand craze is a good example.  

Thanks for your other points on inflation and the Fed - I loved the TJ quote also.

Steven - 

I&#039;ve invested in renewables, but I&#039;m not convinced that &#039;green investing&#039; really solves much.  Better to just focus on one&#039;s breath.  Enjoy Rosario and I look forward to more of your blogs.

Jacob - 

Always appreciate your thoughts, man.  This one is the real kicker:

&quot;In the light of realizing that Ã¢â‚¬Å“Ã¢â‚¬Â¦our needs are simple.Ã¢â‚¬Â donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t travelers become the ultimate example of wasteful decadence?&quot;

Yes.  Yes, I think they do.  There are gradations of course - jet setting to Miami or Dubai is very different from hiking the AT or PCT or going Rory Stewart style across the Hindu Kush...

I often feel uncomfortable with my position as an advocate of high-impact travel.  I turned down a free cruise to Antarctica last month on moral grounds - I just didn&#039;t want to promote such extravagance.  But last week I edited and published a guide to a remote corner of the Himalayas...

Time to go off grid?  Except that solution gets hard if there are ever kids on the way...

J.D. - 

Thanks - I&#039;m reminded of our Christmas Eve discussion at Lago Roca, when we went through 5 pounds of steak and 14 bottles of Malbec.

Williams in Patagonia was many things - but low-impact it was not. 

Anyway, yeah, I guess having everyone just breathe deeper isn&#039;t a practical solution.  There&#039;s isn&#039;t any finger-snap solution.  But, as Steven suggested, breathing deep is a step in the right direction.

I think I remember this bit of wisdom from the first day of Morty&#039;s ECON 101:

&quot;Historically, it has been necessary for some of the people to live under some form of illusion - either as to the meaning of their present work, or as to their potential for advancement - for a society to properly function.&quot;

Kidding. 

Good luck with the moose.

-TP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments everyone &#8211; I hope we can keep the conversation flowing.</p>
<p>Bryant -</p>
<p> I agree that hard work and productivity are important, but to what end?  Improving ourselves and our environment through work is honorable, but so much &#8216;work&#8217; today is destructive of body, mind, soul and earth.  The Alberta tar sand craze is a good example.  </p>
<p>Thanks for your other points on inflation and the Fed &#8211; I loved the TJ quote also.</p>
<p>Steven &#8211; </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve invested in renewables, but I&#8217;m not convinced that &#8216;green investing&#8217; really solves much.  Better to just focus on one&#8217;s breath.  Enjoy Rosario and I look forward to more of your blogs.</p>
<p>Jacob &#8211; </p>
<p>Always appreciate your thoughts, man.  This one is the real kicker:</p>
<p>&#8220;In the light of realizing that Ã¢â‚¬Å“Ã¢â‚¬Â¦our needs are simple.Ã¢â‚¬Â donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t travelers become the ultimate example of wasteful decadence?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes.  Yes, I think they do.  There are gradations of course &#8211; jet setting to Miami or Dubai is very different from hiking the AT or PCT or going Rory Stewart style across the Hindu Kush&#8230;</p>
<p>I often feel uncomfortable with my position as an advocate of high-impact travel.  I turned down a free cruise to Antarctica last month on moral grounds &#8211; I just didn&#8217;t want to promote such extravagance.  But last week I edited and published a guide to a remote corner of the Himalayas&#8230;</p>
<p>Time to go off grid?  Except that solution gets hard if there are ever kids on the way&#8230;</p>
<p>J.D. &#8211; </p>
<p>Thanks &#8211; I&#8217;m reminded of our Christmas Eve discussion at Lago Roca, when we went through 5 pounds of steak and 14 bottles of Malbec.</p>
<p>Williams in Patagonia was many things &#8211; but low-impact it was not. </p>
<p>Anyway, yeah, I guess having everyone just breathe deeper isn&#8217;t a practical solution.  There&#8217;s isn&#8217;t any finger-snap solution.  But, as Steven suggested, breathing deep is a step in the right direction.</p>
<p>I think I remember this bit of wisdom from the first day of Morty&#8217;s ECON 101:</p>
<p>&#8220;Historically, it has been necessary for some of the people to live under some form of illusion &#8211; either as to the meaning of their present work, or as to their potential for advancement &#8211; for a society to properly function.&#8221;</p>
<p>Kidding. </p>
<p>Good luck with the moose.</p>
<p>-TP
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		<title>By: John Arendshorst</title>
		<link>http://www.bravenewtraveler.com/2008/03/21/will-the-coming-us-recession-lead-to-reflection/comment-page-1/#comment-58151</link>
		<dc:creator>John Arendshorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Bryant has some interesting points, and while I agree with most of them, I feel like they present an issue tangential to the original article.

Tim, I agree that an undeniable philosophical void is created by mass society&#039;s consumption-solves-all approach.  I wholeheartedly agree that slowing down, appreciating things, and not getting worked up about things that don&#039;t deserve it are necessary elements to achieving some degree of happiness with modern society.  However, saying that this recession presents an opportunity for society at large to wake up and realize the folly of their ways is far too idealistic a statement (even for me).

In every society throughout human history, a vast minority of the population has been &quot;enlightened,&quot; by whatever metric.  Historically, it has been necessary for some of the people to live under some form of illusion - either as to the meaning of their present work, or as to their potential for advancement - for a society to properly function.  In my year as a financial advisor, I ran into countless people whose priorities were so grossly misplaced as to be tragic.  Not knowing something isn&#039;t bad; not knowing that you don&#039;t know something is dangerous.

A mere recession isn&#039;t going to change the philosophical approach of the masses.  They&#039;ll continue consuming to the limit of their abilities, or just beyond, through no fault of their own.  It&#039;s just the way our system is set up.  Maybe this is where Bryant&#039;s point comes up.

Tim, if your post is about what we can do personally to weather the coming storm, I couldn&#039;t agree more.  If you haven&#039;t already read it, pick up a copy of the Tao Te Ching - while I don&#039;t currently subscribe to any one philosophy, the general philosophy in the Tao seems to echo your thoughts here.  But if your article is a suggestion for improving the quality of life for everyone, I just can&#039;t see how it could be practical.

Now if you&#039;ll excuse me, I&#039;m going outside to try to find a moose.  I hear there&#039;s a marsh around here where they like to hang out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bryant has some interesting points, and while I agree with most of them, I feel like they present an issue tangential to the original article.</p>
<p>Tim, I agree that an undeniable philosophical void is created by mass society&#8217;s consumption-solves-all approach.  I wholeheartedly agree that slowing down, appreciating things, and not getting worked up about things that don&#8217;t deserve it are necessary elements to achieving some degree of happiness with modern society.  However, saying that this recession presents an opportunity for society at large to wake up and realize the folly of their ways is far too idealistic a statement (even for me).</p>
<p>In every society throughout human history, a vast minority of the population has been &#8220;enlightened,&#8221; by whatever metric.  Historically, it has been necessary for some of the people to live under some form of illusion &#8211; either as to the meaning of their present work, or as to their potential for advancement &#8211; for a society to properly function.  In my year as a financial advisor, I ran into countless people whose priorities were so grossly misplaced as to be tragic.  Not knowing something isn&#8217;t bad; not knowing that you don&#8217;t know something is dangerous.</p>
<p>A mere recession isn&#8217;t going to change the philosophical approach of the masses.  They&#8217;ll continue consuming to the limit of their abilities, or just beyond, through no fault of their own.  It&#8217;s just the way our system is set up.  Maybe this is where Bryant&#8217;s point comes up.</p>
<p>Tim, if your post is about what we can do personally to weather the coming storm, I couldn&#8217;t agree more.  If you haven&#8217;t already read it, pick up a copy of the Tao Te Ching &#8211; while I don&#8217;t currently subscribe to any one philosophy, the general philosophy in the Tao seems to echo your thoughts here.  But if your article is a suggestion for improving the quality of life for everyone, I just can&#8217;t see how it could be practical.</p>
<p>Now if you&#8217;ll excuse me, I&#8217;m going outside to try to find a moose.  I hear there&#8217;s a marsh around here where they like to hang out.
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://www.bravenewtraveler.com/2008/03/21/will-the-coming-us-recession-lead-to-reflection/comment-page-1/#comment-58150</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Awesome TJ quote, Knight.

A very stirring piece and an interesting question. I think the recession will cause some to greatly re-evaluate what is important and necessary in life.

But not to some revolutionary degree.

Take, for example, the recent Earth Liberation Front (ELF) fires in Washington. How convenient...the housing market tanks, developers are sitting on ridiculous amount of unsold property and houses and suddenly an extremist group &quot;conveniently&quot; burns down their homes. Reeks of fraud and desperation.

Developers now have little to gain from developing land--so they&#039;re offloading it to anyone who&#039;s interested in owning land for land&#039;s sake--such as public land trusts. This is the kind of order-from-chaos that we&#039;ll see in the next decade or so. Peoples&#039; livelihoods will be destroyed and from that they will be born anew.

However, the problem with believing that everyone will suddenly simplify their lives--and the ultimate problem with socialism and isolationism, in my opinion--is desire. In a free society, we&#039;re entitled to desire things both good and bad; sex, drugs, money, a bigger home, a better life for our children, knowledge....things that don&#039;t necessarily fall into the &quot;food, clothing, shelter&quot; model of necessity. Discontent is what drives the greatest experiences and innovations in our lives...otherwise, why would we travel?

In the light of realizing that &quot;...our needs are simple.&quot; don&#039;t travelers become the ultimate example of wasteful decadence?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome TJ quote, Knight.</p>
<p>A very stirring piece and an interesting question. I think the recession will cause some to greatly re-evaluate what is important and necessary in life.</p>
<p>But not to some revolutionary degree.</p>
<p>Take, for example, the recent Earth Liberation Front (ELF) fires in Washington. How convenient&#8230;the housing market tanks, developers are sitting on ridiculous amount of unsold property and houses and suddenly an extremist group &#8220;conveniently&#8221; burns down their homes. Reeks of fraud and desperation.</p>
<p>Developers now have little to gain from developing land&#8211;so they&#8217;re offloading it to anyone who&#8217;s interested in owning land for land&#8217;s sake&#8211;such as public land trusts. This is the kind of order-from-chaos that we&#8217;ll see in the next decade or so. Peoples&#8217; livelihoods will be destroyed and from that they will be born anew.</p>
<p>However, the problem with believing that everyone will suddenly simplify their lives&#8211;and the ultimate problem with socialism and isolationism, in my opinion&#8211;is desire. In a free society, we&#8217;re entitled to desire things both good and bad; sex, drugs, money, a bigger home, a better life for our children, knowledge&#8230;.things that don&#8217;t necessarily fall into the &#8220;food, clothing, shelter&#8221; model of necessity. Discontent is what drives the greatest experiences and innovations in our lives&#8230;otherwise, why would we travel?</p>
<p>In the light of realizing that &#8220;&#8230;our needs are simple.&#8221; don&#8217;t travelers become the ultimate example of wasteful decadence?
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		<title>By: Steven Jay Weinberg</title>
		<link>http://www.bravenewtraveler.com/2008/03/21/will-the-coming-us-recession-lead-to-reflection/comment-page-1/#comment-58144</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Jay Weinberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>22 March 2008
Rosario, Argentina
Tim,
Thanks for many points worth consideration. The thread: Blaming a whole generation is a distinctly useless one, though. You hit it right that the blame game is a waste of energy. Such statements are always false generalizations that lead nowhere. Can you say tar baby? Only fools reach for it.

The folks (young or old or very old) who greedily reach for wealth at the expense of the planet and quality of life will not slow down, but they could, conceivably, be tempted to invest their greed in positive projects that will make them money. Who are promising companies that might draw the green monster to projects that will not destroy us? Who are investing in real solutions regarding alternative energy, for instance? In the meantime, entirely breathing each breath and slowing down would, could, can make a difference.

Boom!
Steven J. Weinberg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>22 March 2008<br />
Rosario, Argentina<br />
Tim,<br />
Thanks for many points worth consideration. The thread: Blaming a whole generation is a distinctly useless one, though. You hit it right that the blame game is a waste of energy. Such statements are always false generalizations that lead nowhere. Can you say tar baby? Only fools reach for it.</p>
<p>The folks (young or old or very old) who greedily reach for wealth at the expense of the planet and quality of life will not slow down, but they could, conceivably, be tempted to invest their greed in positive projects that will make them money. Who are promising companies that might draw the green monster to projects that will not destroy us? Who are investing in real solutions regarding alternative energy, for instance? In the meantime, entirely breathing each breath and slowing down would, could, can make a difference.</p>
<p>Boom!<br />
Steven J. Weinberg
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		<title>By: Bryant Knight</title>
		<link>http://www.bravenewtraveler.com/2008/03/21/will-the-coming-us-recession-lead-to-reflection/comment-page-1/#comment-58109</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryant Knight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 04:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bravenewtraveler.com/2008/03/21/will-the-coming-us-recession-lead-to-reflection/#comment-58109</guid>
		<description>Interesting post, though I strongly disagree with most of it.

It has nothing to do with &quot;frantically racing around, constantly trying to get ahead.&quot; Productivity and hard work are pillars of civilization.

The problem is the manipulation of the money by the Federal Reserve, complicated by politicians who have lied us into blowing trillions of dollars overseas. The mainstream media has largely supported this effort.

The Federal Reserve deliberately causes inflation, which always benefit those at the top--investment banks, military contractors, and others--at the expense of the rest of the country, especially the elderly who saved for retirement. It&#039;s a hidden, backdoor, special interest tax. This is why we have more billionaires than ever before, while the rest of the country slides into fear and the blue-collareds feel pressure.

There is nothing American about this treachery. Thomas Jefferson warned us this could happen: &quot;If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.&quot;

The solution is not &quot;to take a deep breath.&quot; It is not &quot;to hug our children.&quot; To borrow a line from the movie Network, I want you to get mad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMBZDwf9dok&amp;feature=related</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post, though I strongly disagree with most of it.</p>
<p>It has nothing to do with &#8220;frantically racing around, constantly trying to get ahead.&#8221; Productivity and hard work are pillars of civilization.</p>
<p>The problem is the manipulation of the money by the Federal Reserve, complicated by politicians who have lied us into blowing trillions of dollars overseas. The mainstream media has largely supported this effort.</p>
<p>The Federal Reserve deliberately causes inflation, which always benefit those at the top&#8211;investment banks, military contractors, and others&#8211;at the expense of the rest of the country, especially the elderly who saved for retirement. It&#8217;s a hidden, backdoor, special interest tax. This is why we have more billionaires than ever before, while the rest of the country slides into fear and the blue-collareds feel pressure.</p>
<p>There is nothing American about this treachery. Thomas Jefferson warned us this could happen: &#8220;If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.&#8221;</p>
<p>The solution is not &#8220;to take a deep breath.&#8221; It is not &#8220;to hug our children.&#8221; To borrow a line from the movie Network, I want you to get mad. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMBZDwf9dok&amp;feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMBZDwf9dok&amp;feature=related</a>
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