A common sight on the streets of cities like Bangkok and Pataya is portrayed from the eyes of the girl.
Shy / Photo: a hundred visions
When cruising the streets of any hectic Asian city you will see them. You will judge them. You will either respect them and it or you will not.
You might see them walk hand in hand. Maybe he will have an arm around her. Maybe she will cling to him as if there’s no day tomorrow. You will see her dedication to him. And maybe you will see how much he enjoys the attention of a young feisty girl.
It’s all about the love between two people. A young Asian girl and an old grey man that has seen better days.
Can you call this love?
It all depends on the definition of the word “love”. There are many different levels of love and many ways of feeling this “love.”
More or less any poor Asian girl knows that if she lands a Westerner it means security. She needs it and she wants it. Her family is dependent on it and they know if there’s no cash on the table there’s no food in the belly.
Another Perspective
Through her eyes: picture a family of eight and where the youngest sister recently returned home with a new born baby, all living in a one room shed. A hole in the floor functions as a toilet and a bucket provides a cold shower. The kitchen is the fire they start outside their wooden entrance and only door.
You get desperate. You need money. You need security and you do not care how. Desperation for survival eats its way inside you.
You get desperate. You need money. You need security and you do not care how. Desperation for survival eats its way inside you.
Seeing the elderly Westerners who you know are looking for a good time, you start getting ready. Throw on your nicest piece of clothing and whatever make-up you are lucky enough to have and out you go. The bars, the streets, the restaurants even the corner of any highway.
When people look at you, they know. They think their thoughts about you and you feel humiliated, cheap and scared. But what you are most scared of is not being able to feed your sister’s baby and your family.
A man comes up to you and starts a conversation. You feel insecure about what to say. You want to say the right thing. You want him to like you, to take you in, to fall in love with you. To save you.
The Dream
It happens, the greatest thing you ever dreamt of happens. You pinch yourself making sure it’s real, that in this moment, in this time, in this place. It’s real!
Looking back / Photo: i see you
He feeds you, takes you to nice up beat restaurants, you hold his hand. You sleep with him and he treats you well. He’s a good man. An old man but a sincere man. You get to know more about him and him about you. He tells you he’s lonely and lives in a cold country on the other side of the world.
You cling to him; you feel “love” for him. You tell him you “love” him and after a while he says “okay.”
Your family starts to eat better; the baby is safe and healthy. He gives you money twice a month to help you and your family lead a better life.
Then he’s gone, back to his home country and your whole world falls apart. What now? The desperation you felt before meeting this wonder of a man starts burning inside of you again.
Then he calls: “Let’s go open a bank account and I will transfer the money to you while being home”. You feel relieved. You feel calm and most grateful to this God of a man.
A Reason To Live
Is this love? The answer would be yes and no.
She loves him of the fact that he helps her. We, the ones born and raised in a country where hunger is not an issue; far away from the world of poverty. We don’t see things the same way.
What we care about is having the right car, the cool shoes, the modern brands, the fashionable clothes, and the only desperation you feel is being cool enough join the community of the ridiculous materialistic world you live in.
He loves her too. She gives him a reason to live, even at home. He calls her, tells her what he’s been doing and how his side of the world treats him. They share stories, thoughts, smiles, and maybe even secrets.
They do have a relationship; they are together as a couple. Their exist in a world of their own.
What would you think if your father began dating this girl?
What do you think? Share your thoughts in the comments!
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118 Comments... join the discussion!
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Actually, my Aussie dad also married a Filipina woman. He is a doctor and she is the CEO of a very successful business- so who married whom for what reason other than the fact that they loved each other? I grew up in a mixed background home in New York City and never experienced any sort of discrimination until I attended university outside of NYC. I was constantly bombarded by questions and ignorant assumptions– people just assumed that my mother was poor and was “rescued” by my dad. A total load of crap. In school, I was also a target of white boys with “Asian fetishes” who saw me as an exotic creature to be experienced… that was disgusting and demeaning. I find myself attracted to white guys for whatever reason, but they would call me Asian and couldn’t seem to grasp that I was white too..
Right now I am living in the Philippines doing volunteer work and see many white men (older, overweight, rude) with beautiful young Filipina girls. Seeing as I have mixed experiences with the whole Asian girl, white guy thing, I’m not too sure how I feel about the matter… all I know is that it does make my stomach turn a little, for whatever reason.
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Obviously, older thin white guys do not engage in this.. only the overweight.
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sorry asian girls dont do fat moronic ignorant losers like you
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I think what Ryan means is that even users are as prone to stereotyping as the used. I’m sure there are thin, young, intelligent but monetarily challenged men who take advantage of people, too.
If you could spot dirtbags just by looking at them – well now, we’d neither have an article nor so many responses. Guess you have to take it on a case-by-case basis, and it’d help if people wouldn’t judge one another so quickly.
Peace owt.
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Who should or shouldn’t be with whom is complicated and there is no single, correct answer.
To me, the idea behind the post is to offer a perspective that is not often expressed, and I think that perspective rings true. For example, I had many soldiers in the 1980’s in the Philippines who had great marriages with women from all kinds of unfortunate backgrounds. The two posters above offer two other perspectives.
Here’s mine. Racists, i.e. people who view life through the narrow prism of (their best guess at) a person’s race, often have a problem with mixed race relationships, although for many different reasons.
Agists, i.e. those who tend to view life through the narrow prism of (their best guess at) a peron’s age, often have a problem with mixed age relationships, although for many different reasons. Same with classists, education snobs and so on.
I found it interesting when my Thai wife and I lived in the US that we were made more comfortable in Houston than San Francisco. In S.F., there were just too many hangups at the fancy law firm about what Asians should be and how they should think. Somehow the firm in Houston was much more open to the idea that people from vastly different backgrounds could still have much more in common as humans than not.
I also found it interesting years ago when my wife’s nieces and nephews were young, and I would take one out for ice cream, or on errands or whatever in Thailand, how so many Western tourists in Thailand would stare at me like I was some kind of monster, instead of just guessing, as did most Thais, that I was out with family. Somehow the Westerners’ prejudices blinded them to subtle signs about our interactions that should have been telling. And yes, this is a common story among expats in Thailand and the Philippines.
Hence, I suppose my reaction to the OP and the two posters above is many, many perspectives on this issue can be legitimate, but that if the view arises out of some kind of intolerance or ‘ism,’ other perhaps than intolerance of intolerance, the perspective is highly suspect, at best.
Thought provoking OP, thanks.
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Wow- sorry I missed the other 70-plus posts when I did mine. Guess teeny laptops on the road have their limitations, at least with me…
But having now reviwed the other posts, I do find it telling that so many young people presume partners should be close to their age, and so many relatively educated posters, such as the Westernised Thai or whatever her name was, seem to think that people must necessarily find a partner in their education or income class or some such.
Why be so judgmental and limiting? The world and humanity are vast–there’s room for all kinds of different approaches, except perhaps for the idea of seeing a couple and judging them on their apperance alone.
As with other posters, I’ve also known relationships where the Asian woman was much more educated and made a lot more money than the farang–is that wrong? Of course not. Live and let live.
So many posters here would feel sorry for a poor, old, ugly and relatively dumb African or South Asian, but can’t find the same sympathy for some of the beaten down Westerners one sometimes runs across in Asia. Why? Why dole out the sympathy or respect or pity or whatever on a race basis? Cool to be ok with the exotic person in a bad way, but not your countryman?
Live and live, and have a heart for others as you move through life. Who knows, you or a loved one could be the one in need of pity at some point.
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(Ignoring the fact that my dad is happily married) If my father married a Thai girl (as long as she was old enough to be legal in our state) I would react under the assumption that he had met her, gotten to know her, and fell in love with her. As such, I would react in exactly the same way that I would had he married a white american woman around his age.
Well, I’d crack jokes, but me and my dad crack jokes about whatever is available. She would be welcome as my dad’s wife, even if she was younger than me. If I thought the humor would be received in the intended context I might jokingly ask if she had a sister.
If both parties are consenting adults, and neither party is unhappy with the arrangement, any judgments laid down by westerners who think they have the right to speak on the propriety of other people’s perfectly legal lifestyles are being completely irrelevant.↵ -
I know the author specifies old grey man and really young Asian girl, however topics that include interracial relationships particularly involving a western man and an eastern girl should only be written by people who can actually comment from experience. It has never failed to annoy me as this ‘issue’ encourages people to gross generalise particularly when travelling abroad to places like Thailand and basically any other country in the South East Asian region. The stereotype is usually an educated, rich white man and a very young, un-educated, non English speaking Asian girl. I am married to an English man, I on the hand am Malaysian (though born in Malaysia, I grew up in England), although my husband and I are very close in age, there are people who never fail to insult us by giving us the dirtiest of looks and occasionally insulting comments when we’re travelling or even when we are in our home countries. With all the other problems in this world interracial relationships should be the least of our worries. Seriously though? relationships between older men and younger women, or relationships whereby one benefits from the other (in this case the wealth of the other)– it happens everyday, in every country–why single out young ASIAN girl on the streets of Bangkok and Pattaya ?
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hey marcos, sex trade in europe ala the movie taken anyone?? good call man like the comment u left.
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Thanks badguest. My personal opinion is that because the perpetrators of the sexual slave trade involving Eastern European women (and women from other parts of the world including Asia as well) is that those in the media, chattering classes and positions of power tend to hold “liberal” political views. Invariably they regard Muslims as “victims”. Therefore where you have situations where Muslims are perpetrating crimes such as sexual slavery, someone who sees themselves as a liberal cannot overcome their pre-judged opinion that this group of “victims” are in fact perpetrators.
This truly evil trade is alive and well all over Europe where the Albanians now effectively run the show and in many parts of the Muslim world where women in the sex trade have been “imported” from non-Muslim countries. I wouldn’t bet on any open debate about this evil trade in the West, let alone serious, determined action to put a stop to it; that would involve asking very honest questions about attitudes to women and sexuality in the Muslim world. Watch anyone who tries to raise this issue being insulted and silenced by “liberals” in the West and having their lives threatened by those making countless millions from slavery.
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This is just ONE example. You can replace X and Y with whatever you like. This example is posed to ask a humanitarian question of whether or not there are those who PREY on each other and whether or not we should care. It is thought-provoking and opens doors for discussion. I can’t believe we shouldn’t discuss the matter it if it’s not happening to us. So should nations such as France etc. have just turned a blind eye to slavery (which was clearly wrong and has long-standing implications in the west) because they themselves were not engaged in the practice or didn’t involve them. Stay alert. Ask questions. Be tolerant and listen before acting. If you act in good will towards others in all that you do…good will most likely will be the outcome. (again..take this statement in context).
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It only takes not being able to feed your kids, missing a couple meals, getting thrown out of your residence to get a grasp of what probably 1/2 the world experiences daily to answer that question. Love or not, people of all kinds and colors have come together for what ever it is they get from another person. Sometimes its love, sometime its survival. Does our opinion of what it may be really count? Only if you give a sh– what somebody else thinks. Besides the people that make the decision on what is proper is some old dude with a lot of money or in government and an opinion, and you know what opinions are like.
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now everyone can have an Asian girlfriend, just make your current g/f “Asian” here’s how
http://japansugoi.com/wordpress/how-to-talk-and-act-like-a-japanese-girl/↵ -
Japanese girls flock to the beaches of Bali to have holiday flings w/ the local beach boys. Nothing wrong with it, and good for them! As long as both parties are of age who cares who hooks-up with who. Everyone should just mind there own damn business!
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While I appreciate the sentiments of this post, I am deeply disturbed by the “White man, Asian Girl” portrayal. I am, in all senses of the word, an “Asian” girl and I am appalled by the sweeping generalisations that this post makes. Poor people all over the world suffer and negotiate their way through their difficult circumstances. I am horrified by what I will call here the “Slumdog phenomenon”. The exoticism that seems to be the core of this post has shocked and angered me. It would be nice if the post was about facts and figures and not a “oh-look-at-these-poor-asian-girls”. The article smacks of patronising.
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Perhaps these right on types who look out for a cause to share their many opinions on should think it through before parading stereotypes (nearly always negative) and other sweeping statements that only serve to offend Asian women and in particular, people involved in mixed race relationships with Asian women.
Just try and see if you can get an article printed on this website querying the huge numbers of White, Western women who go on trips to the Caribbean and parts of Africa etc primarily to have sexual encounters with black men. Then try to attribute a negative portryal of the black men in question – just see how far you get.
What we need is a bit of common sense and attempt to rise above the usual, lazy and offensive cliches and stereotypes about mixed race relationships involving Asian women.
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I’m an Asian woman, married to a White man. We fell in love because of our personalities. I know there are people who stereotype Asian women as uneducated, dumb, submissive, poor, etc. I don’t blame those people…I have seen a lot of women from poor Asian countries who would perfectly fit into the stereotype. It used to bother me when people would assume I was “one of those women”, even when I’m educated, speak 3 foreign languages, and came from a middle-class family. People also stereotype my husband as a “macho” or a “looser” who was not able to “get a white woman” (like the highest prize in life). We have learned to ignore stupid people and not being bitter about their comments. Instead, we enjoy making fun of them by telling untrue stories of how he payed my parents money to let him marry me, or how he sent me to school for the first time, or how we met at a Bar when he was in the Navy”. It makes people happy to hear those stories full of missery. I guess they feel better. I also know that a lot of Asians stereotype White women in a very negative way.
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Hi, i saw your comment and would like to say you are right about the prejudices westerners displayed when a white man is seen going out with an asian girl. I am an asian girl brought up in Australia and it dawned on me that the people that have this type of prejudices don’t know any better. They want to judge about what they saw and make final conclusions. They will not treat you any friendlier once they know ..”owh… she’s educated apparently”… makes me want to laugh. The yellow to white combination in Australia is almost the same in certain parts like the East coast and over there it’s no different from Bangkok’s Sukhumveet roads.
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i just can’t stand the misconceptions people have about an asian girl and white man getting together.firstly not all white men who have asian girls are fat old and sorry looking arses.secondlynot all asian girls who get a white guy are poor naive uneducated fools and thirdly its not always a poor asian girl meet a rich white guy and falls in love.take me for instance i am a an educated goodlooking asian girl who happen to meet my french husband while he was doing his externship in my country we met we fell in love and now we have two beautiful kids.i fell for him not because i wanted to flee off to what some people insist is the great western country and its offerings of a better life (i consider this a rather presumptious idea the ignorant white lot have)but because i could totally connect with him on so many levels and because i wanted to be with him not because i wanted a better life or because i wanted a white man .if you see around you now you will see its not the white countries that are developing but its the asian countries that are developing at a far greater rate and do consider the droves of asian blokes working as the brains in your companys at present you wouldnt be anywhere without us.one thing i can say you wouldnt be anywhere without us asians love or hate us you still need us eitherway because when it comes to brains and its works i can say with total confidence that the size of your brains is equivalent to the size of a pineal gland.ahyeah and i forgot to mention my man is a hottie not a fat obese white loser in ref to some person who quoted its the fat obese kinds who hook up with us asians.my man says he digs asian woman because we’re sexy soft and warm and we have a fierce mind to match.
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I never thought it would happen. If you told me 3 years ago I would have an Asian girlfriend I would have responded you were nuts. We are too different. Raised in worlds far apart……..but guess what, here I am a white male with a beautiful asian girlfriend. So you think they are uneducated? I beg to differ, get into a debate with this one and you will need to be adept mentally and factual or she will out manuever you. So you think she is poor? Wrong again, she owns her own business and her income is greater than mine. This has been a different journey for me. I have found that she has a sense of humor. She can be as hard as a diamond yet loving and devoted. I treasure the time I get to spend with her family even though when we watch Thai movies I do not understand. Above all I have come to the realization that except for the language and dietary differences we are very much the same inside. When I look at her I don’t see “Asian” I see someone I love but who can be a “big headache” on occasion……….just like me.
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Ooops!! I almost forgot to tell you. Last year we decorated our first Christmas tree together. You see, she is Buddhist and I am Catholic. She is new to the tradition but we had a very good time. Did I tell you I took her home to meet mom for the holidays? I thought the two of them would never stop talking………”you blah,blah,blah too much” I would tell her with a big happy grin on my face. Can’t wait for this Christmas! Funny how things turn out in life, yes?
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Bart,
I’m envious. Congratulations. Let’s see if I have a beautiful Asian girl within three years.↵ -
This is such an old sterotype which may have been true 30 years ago but not today. The vast majority of the White male/Asian female couples I’m seeing are young and attractive with the woman often being a professional so I very much doubt money comes into it, I’d imagine the biggest components would be physical attraction and compatability. Take a look around any major Western city and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
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I guess I am one of those rich white guys with a poor Thai girlfriend, and yes I am older than her. I am not grey, fat or desparate. In fact, the reason I love her so much is because she is not full of all the prentention that consumes women in the US. She is far more beautiful, feminine, decent and honest than any Western woman I have ever met or dated, and there have been many over the years. And she has never asked for a single dime from me. Don’t tell me western women aren’t after your money, and for a lot less honorable reasons. Just try driving up to some trendy club in any big US city in a Fiat and see how much action your good looks and personality get you. And god help you if you marry one – you talk about one expensive learning experience!!! Unlike some poor Asian girls who are just looking to survive, the hypocritical western woman goes for the money and security and she doesn’t even need it. It’s all about status for her. How shallow and empty is that? Sorry to burst your bubble ladies of the West but us men aren’t going for these beautiful, loving and caring Asian girls because we can’t get one of you – the fact is that for most of us we simply don’t want one of you anymore! Been there, done that – got the t-shirt and never again. If all the men of the US knew what they were truly missing there would be nothing but single women in this country. They have you beat in beauty, femininity, grace, honesty and integrity and you hate them because you know you simply can’t compete. We men are finally figuring this out too!
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So when did we get to the point where someone else’s romantic choices are any of our business? Why should anyone care who is sleeping with whom or who anyone else marries? Or why? It’s none of our business. I mean really-are we that bored?
As a black American woman in a relationship with a European man (and living in his home town), I can tell you, most of our outside criticism comes from other North Americans (and mostly Americans) who seem to think I’m scamming my boyfriend for money and he’s with me for the sex. Yes he is older, divorced and yes we did meet while on vacation. And? So what. . .little do these people know that I have an MBA and speak 4 languages and have travelled all over the world while he’s a nice local chap who bearly graduated from (community) college. It’s kind of funny watching people’s faces when they realize “oops. . .i got it wrong”.
I encourage all pepole in interracial relationships to keep going along their path-having fun and enjoying life. Living well is the best way to live. . .
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Most of the people who have posted on this thread seem to share a general sense of frustration at the repitition of tired old stereotypes about Asian women. It is offensive to Asian women and Asian women who are in relationships with non-Asian men to wheel out these negative stereotypes time and time again. The “liberal” backpackers should think twice about re-hashing this line and change the record. Here’s an idea, go to any of the many places in the world where Western women go about their sex tourism business and write about that – just for a change.
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I think it’s easier to be a Western man with an Asian girl in an Asian country than in the West. I’m a mid-twenties American guy living in China and I got married this year to a Chinese girl. Most people think that we’re just bf/gf but they always smile with surprise when we tell them that we’re married. In China, at least in urban areas, most people look favorably upon Western guy/Chinese girl relationships, especially if the Western guy has money. I don’t have a lot of money, but I am able to give my wife a comfortable home and she loves me not for my cash or passport. There are plenty of “groupies” (girls who exclusively hang around and go after foreign men) in China but there are plenty who simply want love, security, and affection, which is sadly lacking in many marriages in China. I’m not being racist, it’s the truth. And of course there are plenty of Western douchebags here to looking to jump on the train and jump right off again. The point isn’t race or nationality. If you’re a girl, treat your man like a man, and if you’re a guy, treat your girl like a lady, and you’ll have a solid relationship, regardless of where they’re from.
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Don’t I know what that feels like?! I spent 6 months working in Switzerland and fell in love with an older man (I’m not talking 60, but notably older than myself). As I am an Afro-Latina-American mix (originally from L.A.), most Swiss folks assumed I came from Cuba or Brazil and was simply with my man for security and a Swiss visa. They generally viewed me with a certain amount of pity in their eyes and even as a sort of prostitute. There are very many Thai, Latin American and other exotic women living there by way of marriage so much so that the Swiss seem to know nothing else. Not that this doesn’t also happen to me in Germany from time to time, but it was my daily experience in Zurich and St. Gallen, Switzerland.
I do love the Swiss and I love Switzerland, but there’s nothing worse for a relationship than the stares of strangers disgusted by what they see. I could dress as conservatively as I wanted to and still be looked at as a poor whore. It took me quite some soul-searching to get over it, but the relationship ended nevertheless.
I refuse to believe as the Swiss did that every woman from a third world country is poor and dependent upon finding a man to take care of her. If that’s the case, it’s no different in the West. How many women in the West would love to date a rich man? How many would refuse a monetary gift if we think the man has way more money than we do? I didn’t look at Thai women in Thailand like poor souls forced to sleep with dirty, old men, but rather women with goals taking advantage of what they consider to be a lucrative business.
I could be wrong, but the fact that I don’t pity them means I’m one staring and disgusted tourist less than they regularly confront. It means I mind my own damn business and let them do theirs.
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Taryn,
Excellent contribution. Your experiences demonstrate how hurtful and destructive these negative stereotypes are and how they affect real people trying to live their lives in peace.
It’s probably a waste of time to ask people to stop perpetuating these stereotypes, but there is no harm in trying.
One thing I have noted is that often these negative views are aired by young, white, middle-class, Western backpacker females. I can’t help but feel that deep down they believe that if a white man is with a non-Western woman, that is because he “couldn’t get” a White woman. Of course, as this prejudice is embedded in their subconscious, they will vehemently deny that this belief lies behind their negative views on this sudject. However, I’m not convinced, anyone who has seen young, Western backpackers spending daddy’s money abroad, is likely to have detected an air of superiority (whether verbalised or not) over the “locals”.
Just more double standards and hyprocasy. It would be good if some of these young, privileged women would learn to keep their noses out of other peoples’ private lives.
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ADELE – You wrote “I never said sex trafficking doesn’t happen in Turkey (it happens EVERYWHERE). All I said was that it is not as prevalent as compared to many other countries.” Just what do you base your statement on? News articles? TV? I’ve lived in 7 countries and visited a half dozen more. I’ve lived 4 years in Turkey and, aside from Thailand, Turkey has more sex trafficking than anywhere I’ve ever seen.
As far as the rest of your comments, well – off the top of my head I’d say that it appears that you probably believed you were the smartest person in your family, got some education, and now you are the know-it-all bore of every party you can sneak into. Good for you. How nice it must be up there in Mensa-Land.
Too bad you didn’t learn manners and diplomacy at Yale…
JUST PASSING THRU
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This blog is certainly brewing a hot debate.sort of stumbled on this,and this article kinda left me fuming.i fail to understand why interracial relationships are considered a taboo,common we are no longer stuck in the middle ages.who is seeing who, is no concern to anyone but the couple involved and it is certainly no ones business to judge them or rate their social strata,age gap,appearence or racial attributes.
i’m an asian girl who recently got engaged to my italian bf after 3 years of courtship,we met while i was backpacking across europe while on a gap year from my studies after many years on we are still together because we clicked well and we create a great equation.to those who tend to stereotype us asian girls as naivette uneducated pitiful creatures i say please come down your high horse ,look around you and get your mindset right.its good to see things on a wider perspective you’d be amazed at how different things look when you do so.something that i’ve notice is that its usually the ladies who tend to majorly stereotype us.come to think of it they even try to hit on my bf while we were on vacation because they thought that if given a choice at a white and asian chick he’d probably pick them,thats what this white lady said.i failed to understand what do they have that we dont,which is basically nothing!!obviously me and my man had the biggest laugh because we’re very familiar with this kind of incidents.i wonder do the asian man having white woman face this situation too?do this white woman also turn to this asian man for financial benefits and security??obviously i know its not so but to every statement there could be a vis a vis or vice versa.
coming to the asian prostitution trade isn’t this a global thing consider holland the russians,danish the east european and even the americans afterall its a global trade why just keep stressing on the thai part,total bullocks.↵ -
Misha,
I’m pretty impressed with your comment. Thanks for having the balls to come right out and say it’s “the ladies who tend to majorly stereotype us”. Philippe also mentioned this in response to my previous comment and it’s been something I’ve always known, but kept to myself. It’s true that being with a white man has often perplexed white women and yes, they would hit on the boyfriend thinking he’d prefer them over non-white me (at the same time emtting a feeling of nobility) as if a white man is thinking “hmm well if I can actually have a white woman, why bother being with this dark-skinned person?” It’s something I’ve learned to live with and even begun to laugh about, but it takes guts just to come out and tell the white people what they usually just don’t want to hear or accept.
Thanks, Taryn
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I’m pretty good with words, so I could write one of’em nice stories I’ve seen here, but this is about being sincere.
If my father were dating this girl, I’d be jealous like hell. On him. The love that comes from pain is the most precious of all, and all to hard to find in our cushy society. Except having sone finances and a bit of life experience and time, what did he do to deserve it?
I, for one, have learned that there is beauty in pain. I treasure my little aches. But yes, in such a case I would be jealous.
And I feel goddamn frustrated that I was formed and educated by a system that does not care nor enable. I feel like the little engine that can’t.
A world away in more ways than one. What can I do?
Probably I’ll just have to be a bit older, more experienced, financially stabe and have a little time to understand that. And hear someone asking: “what did you do to deserve that”?↵ -
Interesting point of view. I just came back from living in Vietnam for 2 years (I’m Vietnamese American), and I saw plenty of this. In most cases, though, the men tend to end up marrying their VNese wife. I also had a few friends who dated local girls.
I understand it is a trade off, and even so, doesn’t mean feelings can’t be sincere. Typically it is guys who have not faired well with the ladies back home and now they are finally receiving attention. That being said, I judged guys who dated local girls deep down because I know the connection usually does not run that deep due to cultural and language barriers. I considered dating a guy (he was white) while I was in VN, but because he had typically dated only local girls since he had been there (and he spoke Vnese quite well!) I still had my own preconceptions and thought less of him. Not as a friend but as a contender to be someone I would date.
People have their own criteria for what they want in a relationship, but regardless everyone deserves to be loved. Even LBH’s.
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I think I have enough with this “thing” lately! Because, I’m an Asian girl, Indonesian and now I’m dating a German guy.
Thanks to God that my family have enough money to feed me well, even spoil me with unnecessary things. So money things or feeding my family is definitely not something that I should care about too much now, because my parents still do it very well! And I fell with him not because he’s a westerner and I want him to take me to his country! Geez!! I can’t do it with my own money or at least, my parents’. After-all now he’s been living in North Sumatra, Indonesia for a year and will spend another year here. He hates tourists even he’s one of them! Even though we have long distance relationship because I live in Jakarta, but still this ‘Western guys with Asian girls’ case disturbs us! We don’t like it!!
Why people care too much with other’s business!? And the thing is, is it our fault (Asian girls) if western guys fall in love with us? And do you think all of Asian girls are bad?? Hey you don’t even know all of us! You can’t just make a generalization from your own point of view and your own experience! Don’t be such a narrow-minded, you have to be very objective!
I know most of people in the world think that girls are weak, especially Asian girls (but we’re not that weak actually!). So it’s easy to take advantage from us. If people do so to us, who’s bad anyways??
Sorry if I’m being too emotional. I just hate this case, because I feel it haunts me everywhere I go lately..↵ -
ahh.. it should be “I can do it with my own money.”
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Intersting to see how so many people are personally hurt, offended and sick and tired of backpackers peddling their prejudices about this subject. This is hypocrisy from the white, western females who seem to be the demographic who are keenest on this destructive stereotype.
I can just imagine the reaction of the people who continue to foist their views about it on everyone else if the spotlight were turned on them for a change – maybe I should sumbit an article about western, white females strutting around places like Morocco and Jamaica with their new “boyfriends” when they are on holiday? Or would that be classified as “racist” (unlike their views on Asian women of course which “aren’t racist”)?
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It’s not the first time I’ve seen this article. The last time I read it, I had to step away from the computer because I wanted to punch the screen. And you know what? Months after the I first read it, I still want to punch the screen. I hate that the article is saying how much we should “understand” yet its pretty clear she doesn’t understand the situation at all. I hate how the article seems to say “let’s stop being ignorant” when the article itself is so ignorant.
Am I condoning how foreigners go to third world countries and making it their sex playground? Hell no. I grew up in a third world country. Yes, I’ve seen the red light district. When I was a kid, I lived in Olongapo City which was near the Clark Air Base (an American military base..gee, google it!) and the hotbed of both prostitution and also some legitimate, as you say “White Male, Asian Woman” romance. So I do know a bit what I’m talking about. If you think that strolling in pattaya beach, backpack and all, scrunching your nose at these couples means that you understand and can put yourself in their shoes? I’m sorry, but that’s a big fat no. Growing up in that area, I remember a lot of (good and not-so-good and just plain horrible) occurrences and issues with both Caucasian men and the Filipina women. I won’t discuss it now, but I state it because before everyone jumps at me, I want to emphasize how little a traveler or even an expat (maybe most especially an expat) can understand these issues and the writer putting herself in the shoes of the girl – creating her as a limited, pathetic, one-dimensional being – does more of a disservice than actually fostering understanding and discussion.
Honestly, I’m red in the face with anger.
a) Yes, I get the “point” you were trying to make. YOu know what your problem was (and also the team of Matador editors – come on guys! geez!) is that you failed to define what you mean. Do you mean ALL Asian women? ALL White Men? I’m Asian. My boyfriend is German. So are you going to see us and try to “understand”? How about making some concrete definitions. Maybe you could of tackled prostitution in third world countries. (THAT would of been interesting). Maybe you could of discussed the propensity of foreign travelers that go to poorer nations for the sole reason of securing an asian wife.
Maybe you could of tackled how former colonies, such as the Philippines (did you know that the Philippines was a former colony of the US? BET You didn’t!) continue to have a lasting effect on the country, such as the power relationship of the American male and Asian woman and how they are perceived by the rest of the world. Another possibility would have been how families from poorer countries are the ones who set up their daughter with a foreigner? You could have explored the motivations, why it continues, how it happens, etc. How about the “binary relationship between ethnic asian nationals and foreign immigrants: obstacles, perceptions and realities”?
What about the abuse that often occurs in these kinds of relationships (based on economic inequality, the “mail order bride” phenomenon, etc.) where a national from a poorer country views the male as her “rescuer” only to have him abuse her physically, emotionally and mentally. Hence, mimicking history’s pattern where the “liberator” is also the colonizer. Or how the tragic histories of many of these countries has affected the perspectives and power relations between the Asian and the Westerner? (i.e.Vietnam). how about the effect of the media such as Hollywood films?
Did your father start dating an Asian girl similar to the one in your article? Then maybe talk about that – your reaction to it, your relationship with him and her. If it’s too personal, then you could have written it anonymously or even wrote it as though your “friend” was going through it. (I only ask because I DON’T UNDERSTAND why you would use that line at the end of your article).
There are thousands of articles and statistics of these cases and you could of done something that would have made an IMPACT. How about an article on how Asian women are essentialized and exoticized, often limited as stereotypes by Western media and colonialism? (Made into that mysterious, exotic, dark Other).
OR you could of even done something like “What perceptions and misconceptions continue with mixed race relationships?” — THAT would have been interesting. THAT would of made a point. THAT would have gotten people thinking.
What about extending your idea, posing the first section as an topic of discussion and then exploring what happens when this third-world national marries the Caucasian male and moves to his home country – what challenges does she face? What perceptions does she have to deal with? Does their balance of power in their relationship shift? IS there even a more dominant person in the relationship? What are her (and his) motivations? Instead of “putting yourself in her shoes” (which resulted in showcasing your own ignorance, even if your mission was to abolish ignorance…), you should of supported it with interviews or research. Yes, articles have an 800 word limit but you could have made it short but powerful if you had based it on something concrete and then let people discuss…
b) Did you even think to interview any of these couples that you have seen? Or were you just content to imagine yourself as a poor Asian girl? Yes, the negative perspective of the “Dirty Old (White) Man” (D.O.M. or in the case of this article, D.O.W.M.) and the “young asian woman” is present, even with locals, but I took a German language class in Manila a few months back and those “types” of relationships were present but yes, there was a LOT more to it. (As you pointed out, they have their own reasons). What could have helped your article is to have actually interviewed couples you’re eager to “understand.” And are you SURE this is exactly how the Asian woman (I get the “kind” you meant yet failed to define – which could also translate for other poor countries such as Africa, Latin America btw!) thinks? That a poor Asian woman of the night, or a poor Asian girl from the province involved with a rich older white man thinks this way? Are you certain that is their situation?
c) “What would you think if your father began dating this girl?” – Wow! Honestly, there was a moment that I was also trying to understand the point you were trying to make (however badly executed). I was also trying to walk in your shoes, trying to think, “hey, this person comes from a first-world country, maybe she’s had a bad experience with that.” Or “her journey to Asia as a teacher probably shocked her and she’s only scratched the surface, at least she’s speaking out and trying to develop dialogue.” Poor little white woman from a first-world country! How wonderful that she’s trying to understand us lesser beings! Goddess of Caucasian understanding! (Doesn’t feel good to be essentialized, no?)
By the way, my grandmother was a white woman from a well-to-do family and my grandfather (her husband) was a Filipino man who grew up poor. Are you saying he’s a male version of that? Was his motivation only money? Was he also fanning the charcoal flames in his tiny shanty, thanking his stars that he found a rich, white woman to buy him things? I know for a fact that this is not true.
Also, I’m curious…if the gender roles were reversed, would you still think the same thing? Now gee, that could have been another interesting topic.
This article sounds a heck of a lot like a bad case of “White Man’s Burden.” Yes, I get what you were trying to do. How noble of you. To “shed light to this darkness.”
Hey, if you’re going to spew out articles calling to abolish ignorance or foster dialogue, how about you study the situation a bit more? Research. Interviews. Don’t put yourself in another girl’s shoes and make her a one-dimensional, limited being. If that’s your style of writing and/or you were truly curious what it would have been like, then it would have been beneficial for you and your readers to have contemplated on the ‘character’ a bit more
Okay. I’m sorry I’m a bit harsh. I’m sorry if I said anything personally mean. BUT this article still gets my blood boiling. And not in a good way. It doesn’t foster dialogue, it just makes people mad. There’s no jump-off point to actually discuss (other than, “What would you think if your father began dating this girl?”). To me, it feels like a cheap ploy to get people to react without much substance. (Kind of like Fox news or one of bad reality shows).
Are articles like these the standards of Matador these days? I’ve noticed a lot of “soap box” articles and though I was an avid reader and a member of the network (and even writer), I’m saddened by how many articles throughout all the other Matador channels attempt to only scratch the surface. Some pieces have been more to elicit reaction (hence, get more page views and comments like mine) than to actually really change, inspire and motivate readers to discuss and think about the world. As a reader, I think its well within my right to give feedback because I want to read articles by other travelers that push me to think deeper, challenge my preconceived ideas, learn ideas about different cultures and perspectives. I really do. If I’ve ended up burning bridges, then so be it. I’m sorry then but yeah, articles like these are NOT okay. I’m not saying squash ideas or that I’m personally attacking the writer (I’m sure she’s very good, but this article could have been much better) or the editorial team, but maybe develop pieces before sending them out. Hey you guys are the ones talking about setting high standards, right? So why not put that into practice beyond the first-world Westernized perspective. It’s not just about the page views or how much T-shirts you can sell. (Is it me, or has Matador become more consumer-driven than idea-driven?)
p.s. that picture that came with the article. NOT OKAY.
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Michaela, I appreciate your issues with the post. Clearly, it’s something you feel strongly about. I edited this piece, and ultimately, decided to post it.
I felt the aim of the article was to simply give another side to the story, and encourage people not to be so quick to pass judgment on others. No more, no less.
I find it disheartening that because of this piece, you feel Matador has become “consumer-driven” which is odd, considering we have very little advertising on the site – the majority of which is for our own websites and a few key partners.
Our aim is to provoke thought, and in some cases, reaction, to get people talking about these issues. And that’s far more interesting than what you’d read in Conde Naste Traveler.
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to michaela lola and others that have weighed in with similar insights -
Thank you for posting and for putting your point of view out there. I am very much inclined to agree and would like very much to see a published rebuttal on the network.
micheala lola-
You are giving so many great ideas away, but what about lampooning this piece or refuting it in any of the ways you outlined above!? I’d love to read it!
Kate
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Ian,
Thanks for responding. But let me ask, what do you mean by other side of the story? I’m sorry but there was no story. In fact, it was devoid of anything provoking deep thought, reflection or a strong stance. Yes, it had potential but was published raw. Nothing deeper. I’m sorry that you thought as editor that it was fine. But you know what? It wasn’t. Yes, it provoked reaction but for what? There were so many other angles, avenues and ideas that the writer could have fleshed out that could have made it GREAT. a piece that would really make people (at least me) think “hmmm…I never thought of that before” or “I disagree!” but it was left ambiguous and at the same time, reflective of an ignorance, a hypocrisy and a neo-colonial mindset that I’m sad to see still present (AND espoused by some backpackers, thinking that they are open-minded when in fact, many still reinforce old stereotypes and clichés – the WORST part? They don’t even realize it).
The writer could have even done her own self-analysis – what she thinks when she sees these couples and the inner-struggle to understand but also her frustration and disgust with the situation.
What the article did was cause people to talk not about the issues but the problems with the writer’s approach. The discussions ended up unfocused: Some argued about their own mixed-race relations, others about the age-gap, and then those focusing on the physical aspects of the “fat grey old man.” But you know what would have been great to discuss?
A) Why do situations like these occur?
B) What kind of prejudices do we have as outsiders?
C) What power relations continue as travelers in poorer countries in terms of romantic partnerships?
D) I could go on and on (I am already aren’t I?)Seriously, if any one small tiny thing that could have made this article remotely less insulting was if the person defined her terms. (Though I still would have thought it would have been somewhat insulting, but hey, I would have understood her perspective).
If she/you wanted to show a “different perspective” then the points I discussed in my last response would have done just that (or made the writer’s point of view clearer and that much more powerful). Instead…it’s just the perspective of another backpacker from a first-world country trying to be “understanding” to these poor Asian women. Ummm…please, I beg you, do you not see how messed up that is? And if that’s truly a perspective that you wanted to use to facilitate discussion, then the writer (and you as the editor) should have prodded deeper, asked her to maybe use a different approach or perspective (as I said above, her own views traveling in say Thailand or Manila) or actually interview a girl living that life.
“I find it disheartening that because of this piece, you feel Matador has become “consumer-driven” which is odd, considering we have very little advertising on the site”
– hmmm……aren’t T-shirt’s and your brand also a product for public consumption? My critique was, for me, what seems like more content seems to be focused on getting a rise out of people for page views but once read, I’ve found some content a tad shallow. I’m sorry if you disagree. That’s just my impression. And hey, I’m sorry if I’ve insulted you and Matador. I’m not trying to make enemies but as a reader, I am also trying to voice how I feel that the network has changed. And I do hope that as an editor, a co-founder and as a traveler, you (and the rest of Matador) would be open to criticism (and I do believe mine is more constructive than malicious). Heck, isn’t critique supposed to push you guys to be even better? It wasn’t personal to you or the site. I just expressed my critique because ultimately, I DO want to read better stuff. I started out writing for you guys and in a way, there is a sense of loyalty there. I DO want Matador to succeed but in a way that I can keep believing in. That’s just my humble opinion.
And that’s far more interesting than you’d read in Conde Naste Traveler. – I’m sorry but that’s like comparing apples to oranges. BNT (Matador) is a completely different vein of travel writing. I would compare Conde Naste Traveler to say, Travel + Leisure. (Does conde Naste own Travel + Leisure? I can’t remember, but you get my drift).
If I was going to compare the Matador sites, it would be with other sites/publications that follow the same vein/approach, say World Hum.
So comparing Matador to Conde Naste…well, I’m sorry to say, but that’s bit false and misleading. It is clearly not the same thing in every sense. It’s a false argument, a false analogy.
And hey, I do hope that you and the rest of the team don’t take my critique of the article and Matador personally. It wasn’t. I have the utmost respect for you, Julie, Lola, David and the rest of the team. And if my criticisms are unwelcome and would fare for me badly as a writer, then so be it. But I don’t believe in withholding criticism just because I’m worried how it might affect my career. If I did that, then I should have never become a writer.
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The article you’re asking for has already been published on BNT: The Shameful Truth About Sex Tourism
http://www.bravenewtraveler.com/2007/11/02/the-shameful-truth-about-sex-tourism/This article is only one more perspective on a complex issue. It was meant to provoke. Given that it has over 100+ comments now, it has done just that: opened up a space for people to speak out about this issue.
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Bravo. You don’t have to worry about anyone censoring you here. And damn, I HOPE we’re not Conde Nast. That’d be depressing.
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Hmmmmmmmmmm…………
Okay, so it WAS to provoke. For me, as one reader, that makes me cringe a bit. Yes, articles come out all the time – on NYTimes, newsweek, etc. – to foster discussion, but I feel as though there’s a concrete stance that they are pushing. But topics made to simply elicit a knee-jerk response (or page views?)…I’m sorry, but I have to just shake my head…
But that’s just me. I’m just one person.
Yes, 100 + people commented. But I believe that quality is a lot more important than quantity. Sure you got the number but did it get a significant point across?
No, I personally think that it failed at that.Yes, it provoked people but I think it was more about the readers’ reaction to the article’s treatment of the issue. And I still don’t understand what you mean by “perspective”? What “perspective” is that? I would honestly (and I’m not being snarky or mean about this) like a definition. What kind of perspective were you guys trying to promote with the article? Because the only thing that seems pretty clear to me is that the focus became on the execution of the article than the issue itself – an issue that the writer failed to set a focus for thus allowing such a broad, complex topic float in ambiguity. Of course there are 100+ commentators! Everyone is commenting on different things since the article left everything open—too open in fact. Thus, what kind of impact does it leave? For me, it just left me feeling angry and disappointed that articles like these are published and espoused as pieces created to foster understanding. I’m sorry, but the editorial team’s avowal of such a work that is condescending, not to mention, hypocritical, for me, was quite disheartening.
And thanks for the link. I was throwing ideas out there (a lot more than just that one you’re referring to) on ways the piece could have been better. They were suggestions on how the article could have, “opened up a space for people to speak out about this issue.”
Well, Ian (and maybe Matador), I think in terms of the flaws and failings (or for you, success) of the article, we are going to have to respectfully agree to disagree. I understand the intentions of the piece, but I think it showcased a lot of negative traits (a colonial view, a 1st world naivete, ignorance, etc.). I went from anger to disappointment. I say this not as an “Asian,” or as a woman, or even as a traveler, but as a human being who thought that society had evolved beyond this way of thinking. I’m very sorry you see the article as a success, because I really, really cannot fathom such a concept. But “c’est la vie!”
Or in tagalog… “bahala na!”
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I am English born from Scottish descent and grew up in Australia. I learned as a teen how cruel girls can be. So I have discovered a whole new king of cruelty. The Asian girl who awaits the day all your money is hers. I still want to have an Asian girl – one with a heart that can stay true through thick and thin and not be twisted by her contemporaries and government handouts.
I would be happy to live there so long as I am not a ’shall I say” sucker.↵ -
It’s odd how critical most of the comments are — because the article makes a rarely honest point, taken from a perspective that is for once, not a male perspective.
It is relevant that the men who want Asian women are, of course, full of prejudices both about Asian women and regarding white women. I often smile when I see little Asian girls growing up in American families because I know that once they are grown (and hopefully not before them) men will hit on them in bars and night clubs and have no idea, so thick is the prejudice regarding Asian women, that these girls are as American as apple pie.
My sisters and I have always joke that the men who date and the men who marry Asian women do so because they have smaller penises — or the psychological equivalent of the same.
And it is men’s fear of women, especially white women, that is at stake here. This fear can be dangerous.
But the idea that it is not about power and money is preposterous.
And the young women who offers a fat, grey, older man her youth is missing out on being with a younger man.
Nor is it the case that ‘fat, grey, older’ women can date Asian men (and given the penis thing, why would they wish too). Moreover Asian men do not count as automatic trophy dates, not for women in any case.
It may be worth reflecting that we often tell ourselves that we are in love, and tell others how much we are in love, just when we know that our real reasons are a little less idealistic.
And how many of us are that honest with ourselves.
Why do any of us ‘love’ as we do?↵
