Is it fair to haggle in a developing country when your flight there cost more than ten years worth of the seller’s wages?
Photo: JasonDGreat
The fine art of bargaining has been around probably since the dawn of time. But I gotta admit, I still hate it.
Jeremy Kressmann over at Gadling recently posted a piece on negotiating anything from a souvenir to hotel to cocktails (I’m assuming) in Southeast Asia. In South by Southeast: Ugly bargaining, he notes five ways to make hustling less of a hustle, and essentially work it out in the best possible manner for both sides.
This, I can appreciate. Still, even as a relatively poor, struggling writer/artist/traveler, I continue to have qualms with the whole haggling thing. Kressman’s rule number 4, “Keep Perspective”, sums up my thoughts on the subject relatively well:
Sure, you might be saving a few bucks, but the gap between your income and the average merchant in Southeast Asia is huge. A week’s wages for you could be more than they earn in an entire year.
In other words, I often wonder if it is ethical to bargain – even though it is a part of the culture you are visiting – when the playing fields are so vastly different? I completely understand that starting prices in markets throughout the world are exorbitant, and have an added “tourist tax”. I also get that to buy everything at that asking price could easily eliminate a person’s travel budget and possibly the ability to continue the trip.
Still, how much did your flight cost to get you there? And how much did you spend on that new iPod to have plenty of music to listen to on your trip? What about that brand new backpack? Ok, you get my point.
The Bigger Picture
We’ve tackled the subject of budget travel and its implications before at BNT, most notably in the piece, When Does Budget Travel Become Exploitation? Author Ernesto Machado notes:
Life is the biggest trip of all, and that’s why I’m a budget traveler at all times, not just while on the road. Being frugal at home means I can avoid being cheap while traveling.
But, if you are going to bargain (and I get that most of us will, including myself), Matador has its own version of how to haggle your way across Southeast Asia. Turner Wright observes what it might mean not to haggle: “Letting merchants believe they can get away with such deals will only drive up prices and could cause even more inflation.”
And Sarah Lane certainly makes a good point in her piece Top 10 Things I Miss About Traveling (But Hated At The Time): “Haggling can be a very rewarding experience. In California, a soy latte is $3.50 and I can either pay up or take a hike. Everything is way too expensive, and nobody cares.”
Maybe we should start a haggle revolution in the West?
Do you think bargaining is ethical? Share your thoughts below.
About the Author
More By This Author
- Finding Myself Back in San Francisco (3 comments)
- BNT Heads in a New Direction (7 comments)
- Do You Use Travel as an Excuse to be Your Best (or Worst) Self? (3 comments)
Related Posts
16 Comments... join the discussion!
-
-
I don’t like haggling and I don’t do it, even if I think a vendor’s pulling a fast one on me.
↵ -
I understand your hate for bargaining, Christine. It can be really time-consuming (sometimes, it’s just not worth it to save a couple dollars) and frustrating when you find out later that you’ve been ‘ripped off’ anyway.
I believe it’s okay to bargain, especially when merchants and locals alike expect it. It’s their way of life and for the most part, I think shops catering to tourists do earn a good profit off the people who hate to and don’t know how to bargain.
I find that the longer you stay in a country where bargaining is the norm, you do lose perspective on income gaps though… because you learn what things actually cost and how much locals pay for it.Personally, I do what Andy does – ask locals what they pay, and shop around before I start bargaining with a merchant. I think that determining whether the item you’re purchasing is of good quality is a more difficult task than bargaining!
P.S. I really enjoy your articles!
↵ -
If you don’t bargain, you’re treating the vendor like a vending machine.
As you and the merchant work the price down, you go through what I consider to be a “getting to know you” process. When you both reach a point of mutual understanding is when the sale occurs.
Just recently here in plain old Pennsylvania I bargained down a haircut, creating space to leave a bigger tip. Why? Why not?
↵ -
I always hear that in Arab countries merchants just love to haggle. So I haggle. Plus I figure they’ve inflated their price anyway. But they never really seem to enjoy it as people say they are. I just try to get the price down to somewhere that’s good for me, whether they’re still ripping me off a bit or not. They might need the money more than I do.
↵ -
I’ll give you a couple more reasons not to haggle too hard and one to haggle your ass off.
First, if you go home empty handed, you’ll feel like you lost out. Think of how much your trip cost you, versus how much you’re arguing over. It’s not worth it. Second, think of how much you make per hour back home. Odds are it’s several times the amount you’re haggling over. Third, what would you pay to not regret walking away from a cool item once you get back?
But then consider the local economy. If you don’t haggle down to a reasonable local price, you drive up the price due to resource scarcity. Yes, that may be a small effect akin to the impact of one person’s vote in an election, but the aggregate effect can hurt. You can also contribute to inflation, thus reducing the buying power of non-merchants who don’t have a ready stream of inflated income. Then there is the effect of high prices on the local job market. If the tourist merchants make a lot of money, the others will not be far behind them in setting up shop, creating a flood of merchants and reducing the size of the work force to do other essential tasks.
I met a guy on a plane who shot a film in Madagascar and they had to very carefully manage this risk in order not to devastate the local economy. He said the crew had to very carefully manage the economic risks before, during and after shooting. The balance they had to strike was to get enough people to act in their movie without stopping people from fishing or creating income inequalities among the villagers.The crew hired a local from another area to act as a language, cultural and economic translator. They about paid the same for all actors and extras as the locals would make from a day’s work fishing. I’d say this is also a part of the big picture view. And that’s why I haggle and walk away…unless I’m in a hurry like in Life of Brian.
FYI, I wrote this up on my blog too: http://meanderingwoods.com/2010/01/the-value-of-haggling.html
↵ -
I don’t mind paying the “tourist tax,” but I agree with Turner that letting someone charge you 20 times the going rate isn’t good for anyone. Thankfully, in my experience, this has been a rare occurrence (at least, as far as I know, haha).
↵ -
Maybe it’s me but I don’t get the feeling that vendors like to haggle. I can’t help but feel a sense of annoyance if not downright animosity from shop owners who watch their profit margins slip away with every baht or dirham haggled away. Which I think is the centerpiece of this post.
I certainly respect the camaraderie aspect of the process but haggling to me seems like more of a confrontation than a friendly encounter, since both parties are trying to get the other to do something they don’t want to.
When all’s said and done though, it’s about cultural norms, and being from one that ponies up the asking price every time, the oddity of expecting a discount is what makes the experience interesting.
↵ -
When I was teaching in Vietnam, after many months, I found myself scoffing, sneering and haggling over a difference of 10 -25 cents… sometimes I put myself in check, but honestly for me is was about living there and trying to get the “local” price as much as possible. I didn’t want to be seen as a pushover and it was important for me to let people know I knew the correct price for a ride or goods.
I don’t know how ethical it was, but I think sticking to my guns time and time again earned me some small degree of respect.(that very well could all be in my head!) Plus I would tip generously.
↵ -
The first couple times I haggle, it makes me really uncomfortable, but then I get used to it. When I went to Cambodia, I did feel guilty considering the amount of money I had vs. the amount of money the merchant had, but I have to agree with some of the other comments, for me, it’s really about getting a fair price.
And there are always people who won’t haggle and they make up for the rest of us
↵ -
I had traveled quite a bit, throughout Europe, N. Africa, S. America, and finally a 6 month trip to SE Asia, where I did get caught up in haggling over price.
After several months in the country I did lose perspective about the difference in the economy there versus the economy back home in the US, after all we were on a budget of about $10-20 per day — the less we spent each day, the longer we could stay in the country. When you spend $2 for a hotel room at Lake Toba in Indonesia and then have to buy a roll of toilet paper for 50 cents, it does start to screw your mind up a bit, and I found myself bargaining for things in order to save 25 cents on something, or walk away.
In the beginning of the SE Asia trip, and on previous trips, bargaining had been a sort of badge of honor for me. I did not want to feel “taken advantage of” as the stupid tourist who paid 4x more for something than a local would, and I would actually enjoy the process and keep it light. However, after the toilet paper incident, I realized that my economic vision had been skewed to a point that was not healthy. After all, trying to save 25 cents on a roll of toilet paper — would it really break my bank? Especially in Toba where there were so few tourists that the guy obviously wasn’t selling a lot of stuff.
We ran into a guy, whom everyone was sort of disgusted with — a 1 week tourist who basically paid asking price for everything with the logic that “well, for the time that the guy took to make this [insert item name here], he’s only making $10 per hour, which is basically minimum wage.” I never would go that far in my logic, but I did realize that I was being totally ridiculous, and my mind had been skewed by the economic differences (paying $2.50 for a hotel room or $1 for a pack of cigarettes, or 50 cents for a pad thai).
I’m sure next time I won’t drive such a hard bargain, though I am richer now, I also see the light, that my saving 50 cents or a dollar on something will not break my bank, but can make a difference for a vendor. In hindsight, I am embarrassed with myself for being such a hard-bargainer. I must claim temporary insanity due to being exposed to insanely low prices for so long.
And then the utter shock to return home and be presented with a $15 bill for a plate of mediocre Pad Thai!
↵ -
If you think it’s unethical to haggle, basically you’re saying you should have a mandatory added donation on every purchase you make when it’s possible to haggle. The logic just doesn’t add up.
A vendor isn’t going to make a transaction in which he is losing out. You’re not putting him in a worse financial situation by haggling and paying a lower price as opposed to not buying something. It’s win-win.
↵ -
I think all comes down to knowing a little about each country you visit – what is a fair price for things, if bargaining is expected or not, etc. It’s also helpful to be aware of how a vendor reacts to your bargaining. If someone is firm about the price and doesn’t seem shady, don’t push it… either buy it or not. But if someone is clearly trying to rip you off, I don’t think it makes sense to accept it.
In a lot of countries, haggling is like a sport. And the ideal outcome is a win-win situation: as a tourist, you likely still end up paying more than a local would so the vendor is happy, and you leave happy because you talked the vendor down from the original price and feel like you got a good deal.
↵ -
I always try to bargain when I see an opportunity to do so and it’s all the better if it is in my own backyard, just like the other day at Macy’s when I got an additional 15% off for a loose button on a shirt from the sales cashier. She offered 10% off at first but I told her that’s just tax (here in Los Angeles, tax is 9.75%), then she offered 15% even as she said it’s just a loose button. I don’t feel guilty though.
But, yes I do feel at times guilty for not paying more than I did for items while in other countries. And no matter how better off I am or others are compared to the host country I don’t think it’s fair to be charged up to 50% extra the local rate for an item. Also sometimes it is prudent to be careful when guiding our street market behavior. If paying the price initially asked for by an unscrupulous merchant this can make one vulnerable to being followed or targeted. The goal is to try to blend in and find a happy place between the local rate and the so-called tourist tax. For example, during Study Abroad in Italy, my friends and I were very happy when we found we knew what the proper prices were to pay for especially for souvenirs from street merchants. Quite a few were selling these posters/prints for 15 to 20E, which couldn’t be right especially considering the currency exchange rate. However I knew it was feasible to pay 5. Some made a big stink, others didn’t until I met this particular merchant who priced all his stock of posters/prints at 5. It was great. I just chose what I wanted and paid without haggling. I did point out the going rate his fellow merchants priced the same posters/prints at and he laughed saying he was honest. Up until that point, I admit I wasn’t quite sure if 5 was fair but it turned out it had been. My guilt eased up.
But there are places where haggling is not the norm nor expected such as in shops or …Macys. There are limits to when and where one can or even should bargain. It’s just about being aware of the local situation.
Some street sellers are observed as some do pay a “fee” at the end of the day. Sort of like rent for being allowed to sell trinkets at a particular location on the sidewalk (not in a market area just a regular sidewalk) but it’s really just bloodsucking. Then others are observed only to be strong-armed out of any profit. My friend noticed a tourist purchase some snacks from a street seller in Vietnam. The seller told him he didn’t have change for the bill the tourist gave him. Did he have a smaller bill? The man told him to keep the change. It was a relatively large sum for a local but not for the tourist. As the street seller walked away someone went up to him and proceeded to hassle him for the money yelling that he knows he just made a lot of money. He was knocked down and lost whatever profit he had made that day so far. The tourist was shocked at what had happened. Maybe it couldn’t have been helped but would it have absolutely happened if that man had paid the local rate? I’m not sure. It’s all about being aware.
↵ -
i don’t feel comfortable with haggling, never have. i also haven’t traveled yet to a culture where it is truly present. great things to think about – thanks!
↵ -
sure I haggle sometimes, but only at the tourist tat stalls which i rarely visit anyway, and only when I think that i’m being charged over the odds of what a local might pay. in some countries there are literal (and racist) tourist taxes (i.e. foreigners pay more for entry to parks, buses). just because I’m western doesn’t mean I’m made of money.
however one thing i hate is the type of traveller who tries to haggle for EVERYTHING, often not in an amiable way, but speaking loud and clear english to the vendor/hotel manager in a way that suggests that the seller is a shifty rat who is conning the tourist out of their live savings…these people are often the first to complain about the unfriendlyness of hotel workers……
if you’re going to try and bargain, at least learn to speak the numbers of the country you’re in. it’s only common courtesy.
↵
